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What kind of mediation would work? Doesn’t the Russian government just want to take control of Ukraine? If it’s “just” demilitarized (not puppet leader put in place) then the pro Russian separatists governments could seize power on the whole country.
I would get that the Russian speakers region could need independence if the central government discriminates them. But Russia doesn’t need to invade the whole country for this.
Please go watch John Mearsheimer’s talk that after this conflict has gone from 4M to 17M views. It will reverse a lot of brainrot the media has fed to you and everyone around you.
I’m sure you could summarize the key points that address what tuxayo is saying rather then telling him “do your research, bro”
Read again.
Russian government has never said they want to take control of Ukraine. What they want is Ukraine to be a neutral country that doesn’t join NATO. They’ve literally been asking for that for the past 8 years.
Asking… or threating? It’s up to Ukraine what to do. They are a free country.
How anyone can be neutral if a neighbouring country is saying what to do?
Nothing says you’re a free country like having NATO overthrow your government in a coup.
Unlike Russia trying to kill Zelensky in an attack?
[citation needed]
No, their sovereignty was taken away by USA in 2014 Maidan coup d’etat.
By USA…? In short, it seems the people opposed the pro-Russian goverment and wanted a closer ties to EU instead. If that’s not something free people can do, what are the alternatives? If sovereignty is something to be worried about, why are you not criticizing Belarus or Russia? There people doesn’t even seem to have any options for opposing the government.
Go check Mearsheimer’s talk. Also, “Western liberal democracy” is an utter failure and has not particularly worked well anywhere yet.
And does invading neighbour countries with direct war work any better…? Using the identical logic based on what you said earlier, we could assume the sovereignty of Ukraine was taken away by Russia on 2010 :)
You are intentionally immoral and dishonest. Probably if your country gets invaded and colonised for a couple centuries, that will start putting some sense into Westerners like you. Mine was, and now another has indirect proxy colonisation.
Oh, our country has a long history about those events. I’m not trying to be immoral or dishonest, or even rude. Just pointing out that there are more than one side to the story.
…one side of the story which you intentionally ignore and deflect using wordsmith weaseling means. Checkmate.
I think that kind of logic is a bit rude, but I seen it constantly here on similar threads. Let’s not follow that, ok? I’m not trying to checkmate anyone. As far as I know this is not a match or a competition. In the meanwhile, you can try to have decent conversation and actually tell me what I am intentionally ignoring? And at the same time answer what are the reasons you seem to ignore a couple of things?
maybe Putin should stop “intensifying” the situation by pulling out…
Russia should’ve never invaded Ukraine in the first place. However, given that happened and Russia isn’t likely to be pulling out the question becomes who exactly benefits from prolonging this conflict?
Ukraine placated putin after he invaded donbass, then they placated him after he invaded crimea. what makes you think that placating putin now will have any positive effects?
The regime that the west put in power after 2014 created a war in Donbas, not sure how you managed to attribute this to Putin. Meanwhile, Crimea voted to join Russia in a referendum because it’s populated by Russians. Again, I don’t understand why people keep twisting basic facts of the situation to try and paint a narrative that’s completely at odds with reality. Do you realize that Crimea was part of Russia until Khrushchev gifted it to Ukraine in the 70s. You seriously trying to claim that these people wanted to live in a country that outlawed the use of Russian language?
This is a lie. The so called “referendum” happened after Russia invaded.
Everything was a part of something else in the past; this is irrelevant.
My question is: “when in the past has placating putin actually worked?”
Stop trying to rewrite history. Russian troops were already stationed in Crimea because the legitimate government of Ukraine had a deal with Russia to provide them with bases.
What’s relevant is that the people of Crimea, who are Russian did not want to live under a regime that outlawed Russian language. Apparently this is something that you’re having trouble wrapping your head around.
My question is: when has the west ever engaged with Russia in good faith. Point me to a single example.
How about a thought experiment. There are protests going on in Moscow, so what if Ukraine sends a “peacekeeping” mission to Moscow and two days after they capture the city there is a referendum for Moscow to become a part of Ukraine. Would you say this was a legitimate referendum, or an obviously hostile takeover?
Crimea used to be a part of the Ottoman empire, and there is someone who speaks turkish over there, so clearly it belongs to turkey…
There are tons of examples actually… how about the ISS? That’s been orbiting for over 20 years, what has the US done in bad faith up there?
your turn now, when has placating putin worked?
Wow that’s a fascinating thought experiment. Fortunately it has absolutely nothing to do with Crimea. Maybe read up on the subject before talking about it?
By the way, you still haven’t answered my question of why Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that bans the use of Russian language. I’m really curious to see the mental gymnastics you’re going to use to explain that.
How is ISS an example of appeasing Putin, do enlighten me. This is the most deranged thing you’ve said here so far.
It’s not, its an example of a good-faith deal between the two nations that has stood the test of time. this is what you asked for remember? “My question is: when has the west ever engaged with Russia in good faith. Point me to a single example.”
When I say “placating putin” I mean “when has putin broken the terms of a deal and the other party let it slide and it hasn’t resulted in further violations of the terms?”
Please just answer the question and stop deflecting.
You still haven’t explained to me why a bunch of Russian people living in Crimea would want to be part of Ukraine that banned the use of Russian language. Please explain this. The reason there are 95% Russian in Crimea is because it was part of Russia until 1970. If you knew anything about Russia or Ukraine you’d know this.
You didn’t answer my question then. Stop deflecting and answer it. You’re asking me when appeasement has worked, but you can’t actually name a single instance of appeasement. Intellectual honesty isn’t your strong point I see.
I started this thread by listing two examples of appeasement:
youre the one whos being intellectually dishonest… you have failed to answer my question and are deflecting…
They wouldn’t, but how is that a justification for invasion? answer: its not! its just an excuse for the real reason: wanting to secure the naval base…
You have yet to list a single instance of actual appeasement.
Once again, you’ve claimed that appeasement hasn’t worked while failing provide a single instance of appeasement. I’ll let the people reading this thread figure out who’s being intellectually dishonest here.
You’re saying people don’t have the right to self determination? Russian people in Crimea should be oppressed by a hostile government the the west put in that suppresses their culture and language?
How is not going to war with Russia after they invaded Crimea not appeasement?
Maybe you can point to a treaty that says “unless there are people who speak russian there”
You’re assuming people who speak Russian want to be ruled by putin. I speak spanish but im not asking spain to invade the US…
Invading crimea stripped the crimeans of their right to self-determination… Putin is the dictator who is suppressing their culture…
Absolutely hilarious that you think the west was in a position to got to war with Russia.
You’re seriously arguing that Russians in Crimea want to be ruled by Ukrainian extremists who literally outlawed Russian language. The fact that you won’t even acknowledge how absurd that position is says everything I need to know about you.
Russia had a lot easier of a time Invading Crimea than it has invading Kyiv, so that would seem to suggest that Ukraine let them have it instead of fighting. this is appeasement and placation.
When you say invading you mean keeping the troops that were already there? Your comment would suggest that you have not bothered to actually learn about the subject you’re attempting to debate.
Let’s just see what the human rights watch has to say https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/01/19/new-language-requirement-raises-concerns-ukraine
Meanwhile, nobody is justifying any invasion. What you’re being told is that Russian people in Crimea chose to rejoin Russia after the west overthrew the government of Ukraine and put a right wing regime in place. The same reason why people of Donbas fought to separate for 8 years. I love how in your mind these people have no agency of their own.
Literal fascists https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
Only to people who have absolutely no clue regarding this subject.
I mean when the soldiers moved out of the naval base and into the towns.
Youre literally justifying the invasion of donbas and the invasion of crimea. And trying to use those justifications to suggest that Ukraine surrender to Russia… that’s what this entire thread is about.
I’m being told that by you, but it’s unsupported by evidence.
I don’t understand why you call russian soldiers “separatists”.
[citation needed] also quick question, why weren’t people resisting these supposed soldiers moving into the towns the way they’re resisting right now during an actual invasion?
Nice mental gymnastics there.
It is a justification to secede though which is what actually happened.
People of Donbas literally chose to fight for their independence, and they’ve been fighting the right wing regime for 8 years. Denying their right to self determination exposes you for what you truly are.
That’s literally supported by all the available evidence and basic logic. The fact that you continue to deny this says a lot about you.
There is no evidence to support your conspiracy theory I’m afraid.
I already answered this; because, in an attempt to prevent ww3, they decided to retreat and surrender instead of fight. Now they understand that placation has no value.
No one says Russian is “outlawed” in the US, but if you only speak it, and try to get your car registered, you’re going to have a hard time. you’re one doing mental gymnastics to say that’s a justification for war…
I’ve seen the satellite images of tanks rolling over the border, but you insist they are separatists.
A civilian airliner was shot down by a BUK, but still you insist it was separatists.
If Ukraine sends tanks to support the “separatists” in Moscow, would you say that’s not an invasion?
That’s not an answer. Why were people of Crimea not resisting the way people are resisting right now, or the way people of Donbas resister Ukrainian regime. When people are invaded they fight back. I’m not aware of a single invasion where people just shrug and say I guess we’ve been invaded, oh well. The fact that you keep trying to spin this shows just how dishonest you are.
Human rights watch must also be doing mental gymnastics. Real galaxy brain logic here bud.
Oh please do share these images with the rest of the class.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2016/05/12/9248/
LMFAO he links bellingcat as a source. 😂
Disprove it
Disprove it or stfu
If you don’t understand that bellingcat is not a reliable source then don’t know what else to tell you. Next you’re going to ask me to disprove qanon conspiracies. Show me a source that’s actually reliable like the UN and we’ll talk.
It actually doesn’t matter if they’re “reliable”, what matters is the evidence they’ve compiled. That article proves that Russian military hardware was in Ukraine in 2014, completely invalidating your pathetic “separatists” theory. You have only ad hominems at your defense, yet you accuse others of spreading misinformation.
Yeah, just like US compiled evidence on Iraq having weapons of mass destruction and then proceeded to massacre a million people there. You’re literally spreading imperialist propaganda here. Also, might want to learn what ad hominem actually means. Hint, it’s not when somebody calls you out for being an idiot.
They never showed the evidence… here the evidence is in the open for the world to scrutinize. Why don’t you scrutinize it instead of talking out your ass
P.S.
Here’s one: the Allies didn’t invade Russia after they defeated Hitler. Even though Patton was ready to go. Even though Churchill said we took out the wrong pig. How many Russians would have survived, if they’d just dealt with Stalin then and there?
I love how you manage to expose yourself to be ever more illiterate with every comment you make. First, USSR was one of the allies you dumb ignorant fuck. Second, vast majority of people in Europe supported USSR after the war. Third, the west was in no position to invade USSR that just built up a huge war machine during the war.
All that said, we were talking about Putin. But I guess being the utter idiot that you are, you probably think Putin was in charge of USSR in WW2. You are such an absolute 🤡.
I see. So Putin, who longs for the good old days of the USSR, who served in the KGB, is not part of the fabric of history. And the USSR was the worst Ally, btw. They never acted in good faith. Which is all too familiar.
So here’s China, now worried how the possible sanctions can possibly affect them in the future. There’s a simple cure for the problem: pull out from Ukraine and stop the war.
Quite obviously not going to happen at this point. The only question at this point is how long the people of Ukraine are going to be made to suffer, and the west appears to determined to ensure that there is a maximum amount of suffering by blocking any meaningful negotiations and egging Ukraine on to keep fighting.
Ah yes, because it’s the west’s fault for invading Ukraine and the west is in control of the Russian military so they could pull out anytime. Of course Ukraine clearly doesn’t speak for itself as well and It’s not like Zelensky hasn’t appealed to Russia to stop?
It’s all so clear.
While nothing justified Russian invasion of Ukraine, it’s reductionist to ignore the reasons behind why the invasion happened. The war is a result of tensions that were largely escalated by NATO, and plenty of experts in the west have been warning about this for many years now. Here’s what Chomsky has to say on the issue recently:
https://truthout.org/articles/us-approach-to-ukraine-and-russia-has-left-the-domain-of-rational-discourse/
https://truthout.org/articles/noam-chomsky-us-military-escalation-against-russia-would-have-no-victors/
50 prominent foreign policy experts (former senators, military officers, diplomats, etc.) sent an open letter to Clinton outlining their opposition to NATO expansion back in 1997:
George Kennan, arguably America's greatest ever foreign policy strategist, the architect of the U.S. cold war strategy warned that NATO expansion was a "tragic mistake" that ought to ultimately provoke a "bad reaction from Russia" back in 1998.
Jack F. Matlock Jr., US Ambassador to the Soviet Union from 1987-1991, warning in 1997 that NATO expansion was "the most profound strategic blunder, [encouraging] a chain of events that could produce the most serious security threat [...] since the Soviet Union collapsed"
Academics, such as John Mearsheimer, gave talks explaining why NATO actions would ultimately lead to conflict this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
These and many other voices were marginalized, silenced, and ignored. Yet, now people are trying to rewrite history and pretend that Russia attacked Ukraine out of the blue and completely unprovoked.
Pretty much the breakdown to your argument is this (as mostly cited from your sources).
And the west is doing that by trying to get Ukraine into NATO and into the EU.
Which… sure, you can infer that the west is strictly doing this for exploitative reasons (the same argument applies with Russia). However have you considered that Ukraine may want to be part of the west?
It’s also kinda bullshit to deny someone’s participation in an organisation like the EU just because they are neighbour of Russia. Some of the above points in your comment can be reduce to: “Don’t include Ukraine or any neighbours of Russia into EU because that will make Russia mad”. However I get why the authors are making these recommendations because it is coming from the angle of US security first and foremost.
What you have also failed to grasp here is how the word fault fits in the lecture. Their point here is to explain that “the west could have done better here” rather than “The west triggered this” because he leverages a lot of blame of particular incidents (violent and undemocratic actions) with Russia but asks us to reflect and consider how we could have handled it differently.
Funnily enough the video appears to have once again, shown the timeline of events which opposes your view. I don’t know how you keep doing this where you constantly quote sources which seem to defeat your own viewpoint and arguments made in the past and now.
With the first quote above and the following quote: “Russia has gone through great lengths to make sure that those pro-russian forces in eastern Ukraine are capable of maintaining a certain amount of independence” when talking the separatists.
This captures the volatility of the situation with Russia and how much they want control over neighboring countries, regardless if that country wants their influence or not. Pretty much I think you have failed to see that… the authors you have quoted here are treating Russia as volatile and expansionist nation. Once again, this is mixed in with their their goal to maintain US security.
The problem with the George Kennan’s argument is that people were being threatened in Europe back in 91-98 where Russia was actively involved in conflicts, it’s revisionist to say “No one was threatening anyone else” and its also a little absurd coming from someone whose job was to ‘contain’ the soviet union and to reduce their influence. There is more at play with Russia than what Kennan infers at the time of his note. Some contributing factors here: You have the hyper-capitalist turn with Yeltsin at the helm, division of territories, loss of power and rise of oligarchs in the new capitalist system.
The authors general consensus is best reduced to: “Russia doesn’t want the west involved in any matters relating to its neighbours”. However, that’s not a decision that Russia gets to make (and the USA shouldn’t get to make that decision either). The authors make it clear that “Russia will get violent if you do get involved”, once again… not okay for Russia to do and it hypocritical to question involvement when they also get involved.
Personally the Ivan Katchanovski article was the biggest red flag that you seem to actively seek out pro-Russian sources to support your world view. It’s fine to do that but balance it out.
No, you are trying to make it seem like that is the case. The tensions were there however the level of escalation that Russia took was unacceptable as with most of their actions prior to this.
Have you considered that Ukraine is not a homogeneous blob that you’re making out to be and has had a civil war over this issue for the past 8 years?
Furthermore, have you considered that the west has been interfering and manipulating Ukrainian politics which culminated in a coup against the democratically elected government in 2014?
What you appear to grasp that the sort of posturing you’re engaged in doesn’t actually achieve any positive results. The reality is that either the west tries to find way to work with Russia constructively or we get closer to a nuclear holocaust. If you don’t understand why that should be avoided at all costs, I really don’t know what else to tell you.
You’ve literally engaged in doing this in your comment. What is or isn’t acceptable in international politics comes down to what countries can get away with doing. That’s the reality we live in. Russia feels that it’s strong enough to challenge the west and they’re doing it. Wars happens when both sides feel that they have a good chance of winning. Once again, if you don’t understand the danger to humanity from a conflict between Russia and the west then there’s no point having any further discussion.
Yes I can very clearly see why this situation is a quagmire. However, financing and militarising an ethnic minority of a country on your border makes it incredibly evident you are happy to create an insurgency in that country. To also utilise your troops in that said country, to seize that their land is an act of war (ie Crimea).
To paraphrase the video you linked, it’s Russia coming in and wanting to wreck the country.
Sure! I do agree that there is obviously some backing by the US and EU during EuroMaidan and Orange Revolution. These are typical goals of US foreign policy, however you have to enlighten me outside of Katchanovski’s articles that EuroMaidan was all completely orchestrated by the US/EU, Berkut didn’t fire on protestors, Yanukovych isn’t corrupt and there is no evidence of election meddling
Sure, we will tell everyone participating in this conversation to turn of their sense of morality. You can kind of fuck off with this if this is your rationale when engaging with people upset about the situation. It’s a failure to empathise and to adequately educate on your behalf.
I think people can comprehend that countries do bastard things, doesn’t mean they have to approve of it or feel indifferent because “That’s just geopol lol!”.
What is this point really? People understand the danger here and the country presenting the threat upon the world here. De-escalation has been an objective here but it’s also a case where a country shouldn’t let their sovereignty be violated because of threats. It’s just appeasing Russia then and letting them take what they want.
I get a sense that you are blaming the west for Russia acting aggressive. I don’t doubt that they have acted against Russia’s interest and vice-versa but to warrant the use of nuclear weapons is an escalation which is completely irrational. Obviously the west is trying to avoid a situation where Russia will respond with nuclear weapons.
The only ethnic minority is the western Ukraine, which used to be known as Galicia. These are the nationalists the west put in charge.
Fun fact, the troops were already in Crimea because the legitimate government had a deal with Russia to have them stationed there. When the government was overthrown, Crimea voted to join Russia in a referendum because Crimea is populated by Russians and was part of Russia until the 70s when Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine.
Here are some sources for you
The fact that the west played a big role in orchestrating EuroMaidan is well documented and it’s frankly dishonest to continue trying to dismiss that.
If westerners had any sense of morality than they’d equally care about a literal genocide NATO is participating in Yemen right now, what NATO is doing in Syria and Somolia, and what Israel i doing in Palestine. Given that you lot have been silent on all these horrors that are far worse than what’s happening in Ukraine, you expose yourselves as being utterly immoral. The fact that it’s only Ukraine that westerners care about clearly shows that it’s never been about human rights or morals.
Nice straw man there bud. What I actually said was that the west should be trying to figure out how to work with Russia constructively by recognizing their concerns and try to avoid wars. Instead, you chose to sacrifice Ukrainian lives to fight a proxy war with Russia while bloviating about morals. It’s frankly sickening to watch.
De-escalation absolutely has not been an objective here from the west. Literally everything the west has done since 2014 escalated the conflict until it turned into an open war, and the west continues to escalate today.
Moralizing is what you’re doing. I’m engaging with reality and saying that unless the two sides start finding ways to understand each others concerns then things will continue to escalate and we will end up with a nuclear holocaust in the end. I highly recommend reading up on all the times we almost had a nuclear war completely unintentionally during the Cold War.
Welp this was easy, once again… it has been fun :)
My phrasing was referring to the ethnic minority of Russian by the Ukrainian census: https://web.archive.org/web/20111217151026/http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua/eng/results/general/nationality/
Which from the statistics are mostly in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.
Ah yes, because running a referendum where the options are skewed in favour of the instigator while you have troops present in that country’s land is really cool and democratic.
I have already broken these articles down in previous posts and in the post above (Exception being the Gravel Institute one but that doesn’t really reveal anything new). I even said not to throw Katchanovski articles at me, but here we are. Also, Katchanovski is literally the only article you have there that actively takes a look at EuroMaidan fully and its filled with inaccuracies, a flawed premise and references that don’t even work or are rubbish. It’s not even peer reviewed.
But seriously, I have to call you out on this again, there is little substance here that links them outside of Katchanovski’s article which is not remotely trustworthy.
Ah yes, all westerners are, including me, condone the actions of our governments all the time. We definitely do not protest or oppose these organisations either. Once again, you’re just screaming into the void and it’s sad.
BRUH, You don’t even know me, seriously. You have invented things about me and westerners so you can throw them at me. I can at least attest in the city I live in, I could probably run into a pro-palestine rally happening in the CBD every second week. It’s rubbish to think that these movements don’t occur or that westerners are uncaring. I could apply similar logic to the Russian and Chinese people but that would be idiotic.
Dude, you literally said this, I can’t help you if you don’t even know what you say anymore.
Anyway, no one wants a war. The west didn’t start the war, Ukraine has a right to defend itself and countries have the right to support Ukraine’s existence, Ukraine has a right to defend its sovereignty when it is violated by another actor. Ukrainians have a choice to engage in the war itself or flee. Effectively your viewpoint is where you blame the the west for sacrificing Ukrainians because Russia attacked. Just no…
Ah yes, because annexation is a reasonable response to a neighbouring nation in crisis when a coup occurs. And we the west clearly didn’t want to cooperate with the Minsk and Minsk 2 negotiations at all. Russia has definitely not been invited in the talks as well…
I finish this with something to effectively staple a point here.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220226051154/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html
Always great when a state owned media outlet are throwing around neo-nazi rhetoric with their victory lap article they accidentally posted.
You literally deserve no respect now. It was fun and I have tried to be nice but… you weirdly support a fascist regime and you’re actually racist.
The response was funny as fuck though, so I have to give you that :)
A rather arbitrary separation on your part. Russian speaking Ukrainians have a lot in common with Russians, and this demographic is in no way a minority. Meanwhile, western backed regime literally outlawed the use of Russian in the country. I’m old enough to remember all the cries about cultural genocide in Xinjiang because Uyghurs had to learn Chinese and China hasn’t even banned Uyghur language. Shouldn’t we be applying the same standards in Ukraine?
Funny how you chose to ignore the fact that Crimea is populated by Russians. I guess that doesn’t fit the narrative you’re trying to create.
Once again you’re showing incredible amounts of dishonesty here. There’s really nothing else to say here.
If you disapprove of the actions of your government and aren’t able to hold it accountable you have no business screeching about Russia. It’s really that simple.
Meanwhile, the media coverage of what’s happening in Ukraine is on a completely different level from media coverage of exact same things being done by western powers. Pretending that Ukraine is somehow an outlier that everyone should focus on directly helps cover for ongoing western crimes.
BRUH, I’ve seen you here bloviating exclusively about Ukraine and nothing else. If you care about the horrors that your government engages in equally as much it’s rather weird that you only talk about Ukraine.
I literally provided context for what I said that you ignored to make your straw man.
The west is directly responsible for creating the situation that led to the war starting with overthrowing the government in Ukraine in 2014. Continuing the narrative that west did nothing wrong isn’t helping anything. The west cynically used Ukraine and then discarded it. That’s what actually happened.
No, my view point is that the west should find a way to negotiate with Russia instead of pushing us towards a world war. If you can’t understand that then there’s nothing else to say to you.
Once again you’re doing moralizing. The invasion happened, and no amount of grandstanding is going to change that. The question now is how to reduce human suffering and avoid a world war. Anybody who is not utterly insane understands this, but you evidently do not.
I’ve repeatedly denounced Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and stated that it’s utterly unjustified. I love how you ignore that and keep claiming that I support the invasion. You’re an intellectually dishonest individual.
And yet, it’s part of Ukraine! With a referendum observed by Russia and not Ukraine… interesting.
Once again, you do not know me outside of this platform or the actions I do elsewhere. You can’t assert shit here.
This line of logic is a stretch and suggesting I am continuing a narrative that the west did nothing wrong is also wrong. Good try though!
However, you are assuming that this isn’t happening? What mystical source can you conjure that implies the west has done absolutely nothing to de-escalate? This baseless shit feeds into propaganda.
Grandstanding isn’t the objective here, you rationalise propaganda, you link propaganda and if you didn’t respond to messages I would have suspected that you were a propaganda bot.
It’s so weird that you actively rationalise the actions of a fascist regime and even dismiss concerns people have had over the actions this regime has done. You get called out because your arguments and sources aren’t lining up here and you have posted prop in this community. To really exemplify this: You have literally linked a conspiracy theory article!
Congrats, you have denounced an invasion! Not necessarily the point I am making but more the weird objectives you have of the west instead of Russia. It reads like propaganda because you are spouting propaganda.
Says the person who has literally linked a conspiracy theory articles and tried to pass it off as legitimate source of information.
Ah yes, the classic “Well you haven’t fixed your government, you can’t comment on other governments” angle. Before ‘screeching’ as you have said about the west or anything else, fix things with your own government then :)
Seriously that’s gatekeeping shit here.
Once again! Your responses give me a great chuckle :)
Yes, it’s so interesting that a bunch of Russians didn’t want to be part of Ukraine after the regime outlawed the use of Russian language. You are a very smart person indeed!
I can only judge you by the way you behave on this platform, and that doesn’t paint a pretty picture.
Please show me where you acknowledge the fact that the west is responsible for creating this situation.
Please be specific what actions you’re claiming the west is taking to de-escalate. Is it sending weapons and mercenaries to fight in Ukraine, doing sanctions, or cancelling anything related to Russia?
You’re literally the one engaging in propaganda here. You keep parroting the NATO narrative like the bot that you are. Literally all your account activity has been doing that.
I have not, and you keep calling it that won’t change facts.
Literally how your every single comment reads.
Continuing to claim that is precisely intellectual dishonesty I’m talking about.
I live in the west you dumb propaganda bot.
Once again! Your responses give me a great chuckle :)
You say this while also ignoring the rest of the situation surrounding it! Once again! Interesting!
So you make shit up… got it.
Nah, it’s more fun if you go back and read what I have written. You’re really bad at it so you need the practice :)
However, it’s definitely in the comment section of this post!
I mean… I’ve linked you an article from Russian State Media Organisation that literally is spouting ethno-nationalist rhetoric… You’re conveniently ignoring it. You have linked a Katchanovski article which is debunkable by visiting the references and checking to see if they are legitimate and correlating it with the argument that they are made with.
Review this guy’s stuff before linking it https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ivan-Katchanovski
Check the references, check the citations and check if he is peer reviewed and where he publishes. You will get a very clear picture that this guy has literally fabricated resources for his research paper and commits academic dishonesty.
Cool! So you going to address the problem with your government then? :)
It’s really cute that you are copying me! Here’s hoping you can copy me by being a better person :)
Why don’t you enlighten us about the “rest of the situation”.
Look at your comment history.
LMAO
I’ve linked a bunch of articles from western media supporting what I’m saying, curious that you ignore all that. You’re such a sad troll.
You keep saying that, I guess it just doesn’t fit the narrative you’re trying to paint.
By acknowledging what it does and educating people about it. What exactly do you do except spreading propaganda for the west?
Keep telling yourself whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.
I have and you have ignored it, like usual. So… no surprise there!
Which just says how I interact with you, not necessarily what I believe outside of this or what I do outside of this thread. If this is how you derive information then no wonder you are in trouble :)
I’m sorry you suck at reading, if I had known :(
Do they? Please read them buddy! I literally responded to your bullshit with your own resources and you failed to make a decent rebuttal to counter my points.
Come on now, you should be holding them more accountable! I want to see more stuff about your government on Lemmy and the things you disapprove of it! Why are you posting about Russia, Ukraine and China when you should be dedicating your activism to against your government!
So the fact you haven’t rebutted majority of my posts and you mostly cry “STOP REWRITING HISTORY” then go on an irrelevant tangent to not just me but most people responding to you? Well… I guess you’re trying.
I sleep fine sweetie and I can tell you’re hurt because you had a little cry session with your friends in another thread :)
I haven’t ignored anything.
You practically have no other comment history aside from arguing nonsense about Ukraine.
LMAO
I’m sorry you suck at reading, if I had known :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini's_law
The fact that you keep coming back to this thread tells me just how bothered you actually are inside. You can hide from yourself, but you can’t hide from me sweetie.
Both of you are making logical fallacies, because it’s almost impossible to have a debate between two humans without people making logical fallacies. We think emotionally, not logically, and this is an issue that clearly you are passionate about. However, it is possible to have a discussion without resorting to insults.
Thank you to ahtoms for being the one to back down.