I was told growing up that I won’t like socialism once I have to start paying taxes. I pay taxes, but would much rather pay way more taxes to have socialism. Including paying for social programs I wouldn’t use like welfare, free tuition etc.
Once I qualified for work pharmacare that was great! But I remember how much it sucked not having any health insurance. Yeah I bootstrapped it, but I’d hope we would grow up as a species and not have to have so much bootstrapping, since there are better ways at this point.
While I would not have formulated it this way, I agree that government run social welfare programmes run a high risk of introducing a form of serfdom through the backdoor (with best intentions of course /s). Especially when coupled with “reforms” that try to force people back into work when they become unemployed.
If the majority of your income is directly deducted at source and what you have left you need to pay for food and rent, how exactly can you claim to be a free person and not a serf in a neofeudal society? But this is the reality for many if not most people in Europe.
The reality in the whole developed world is that of having a strong social welfare service while having a military spending that’s just the bare minimum needed. Priorities I guess.
How can Americans claim that their capital slavery is freedom is beyond me; but I find amusing that they look at Europe claiming they are living in a feudal society while not seeing how dependant they are on the capital.
I’m happy to live without the risk of going bankruptcy for going to the hospital. Can you say the same?
I happen to be European, so not sure why you assume this is a viewpoint only US Americans would have?
Regarding health insurance… I agree the American system is insane, but the same time I would rather pay less for basic health insurance that covers emergency needs than being automatically enrolled in a mandatory comprehensive insurance scheme that eats up a significant portion of my total income (and the service still kinda sucks).
Thanks to that significant amount, if you happen to be diabetic, you don’t have to pay hundreds for a single insulin dose. Just to talk about a single thing. But there are many others. What do you consider “emergency needs”? A car accident? Good, but what about a long term illness? Like cancer. Or what about paid sick leave?
The problem is that you are assuming that you will never need the system. And that is a very risky stance.
Besides, considering US Americans pay hundreds in insurance anyway (and then they still have all the misery of their system), are you sure you’re paying too much for your public healthcare system?
I think those things should be covered by a non-mandatory supplementary insurance.
Yes it is a certain risk, but I would still prefer if people had a choice. Not having any financial resources for other things is also a big risk and might even cause health issues that you would not have if you could afford a more healthy lifestyle instead of being forced to pay into a mandatory insurance scheme.
US Americans pay hundreds per month on their health insurance. And it doesn’t mean they have “free” healthcare after they pay those hundreds. In fact, they usually have to pay thousands in case of need (the difference is that with insurance they pay few thousands instead of hundreds of thousands). The reason our system is cheaper is because it doesn’t operate for profit.
If we had a system in which people doesn’t have a mandatory, they would need to pick too: between health insurance (that would be more expensive than the mandatory) or healthier lifestyle. And many would still pick the insurance because the alternative is what we see in the US. People would simply end up paying more than they pay now for the mandatory plan.
The US system is uniquely bad, not sure why you keep going back to that as the supposed alternative.
There are many countries that have basic government run insurance (Canada for example) that don’t cost an arm and a leg in monthly payments and still cover the most important stuff.
But we’re at the same point then. They cover the basic stuff and the rest is on you. So people with less resources will have to pick between get the other things covered (out of their pocket) or spend that money in healthier lifestyle (and hope to not need the additional insurance).
Your problem is that you want to have less coverage and pay less taxes? Fine, but what would happen if you need healthcare that is not covered by your basic insurance then?
That’s a bit like asking what would happen if you get hit by a lightning. Bad things happen sometimes and that’s life. Can’t have (afford) insurance for everything and neither should you be forced to pay for advanced insurance you don’t want.
Yeah I wish there was an offer like that in my home country. 130€ does not even cover half of the monthly payment for mandatory health insurance there (but it depends a bit on your income).
While I would not have formulated it this way, I agree that government run social welfare programmes run a high risk of introducing a form of serfdom through the backdoor (with best intentions of course /s). Especially when coupled with “reforms” that try to force people back into work when they become unemployed.
If the majority of your income is directly deducted at source and what you have left you need to pay for food and rent, how exactly can you claim to be a free person and not a serf in a neofeudal society? But this is the reality for many if not most people in Europe.
The reality in the whole developed world is that of having a strong social welfare service while having a military spending that’s just the bare minimum needed. Priorities I guess.
How can Americans claim that their capital slavery is freedom is beyond me; but I find amusing that they look at Europe claiming they are living in a feudal society while not seeing how dependant they are on the capital.
I’m happy to live without the risk of going bankruptcy for going to the hospital. Can you say the same?
I happen to be European, so not sure why you assume this is a viewpoint only US Americans would have?
Regarding health insurance… I agree the American system is insane, but the same time I would rather pay less for basic health insurance that covers emergency needs than being automatically enrolled in a mandatory comprehensive insurance scheme that eats up a significant portion of my total income (and the service still kinda sucks).
Thanks to that significant amount, if you happen to be diabetic, you don’t have to pay hundreds for a single insulin dose. Just to talk about a single thing. But there are many others. What do you consider “emergency needs”? A car accident? Good, but what about a long term illness? Like cancer. Or what about paid sick leave?
The problem is that you are assuming that you will never need the system. And that is a very risky stance.
Besides, considering US Americans pay hundreds in insurance anyway (and then they still have all the misery of their system), are you sure you’re paying too much for your public healthcare system?
I think those things should be covered by a non-mandatory supplementary insurance.
Yes it is a certain risk, but I would still prefer if people had a choice. Not having any financial resources for other things is also a big risk and might even cause health issues that you would not have if you could afford a more healthy lifestyle instead of being forced to pay into a mandatory insurance scheme.
US Americans pay hundreds per month on their health insurance. And it doesn’t mean they have “free” healthcare after they pay those hundreds. In fact, they usually have to pay thousands in case of need (the difference is that with insurance they pay few thousands instead of hundreds of thousands). The reason our system is cheaper is because it doesn’t operate for profit.
If we had a system in which people doesn’t have a mandatory, they would need to pick too: between health insurance (that would be more expensive than the mandatory) or healthier lifestyle. And many would still pick the insurance because the alternative is what we see in the US. People would simply end up paying more than they pay now for the mandatory plan.
The US system is uniquely bad, not sure why you keep going back to that as the supposed alternative.
There are many countries that have basic government run insurance (Canada for example) that don’t cost an arm and a leg in monthly payments and still cover the most important stuff.
But we’re at the same point then. They cover the basic stuff and the rest is on you. So people with less resources will have to pick between get the other things covered (out of their pocket) or spend that money in healthier lifestyle (and hope to not need the additional insurance).
Your problem is that you want to have less coverage and pay less taxes? Fine, but what would happen if you need healthcare that is not covered by your basic insurance then?
That’s a bit like asking what would happen if you get hit by a lightning. Bad things happen sometimes and that’s life. Can’t have (afford) insurance for everything and neither should you be forced to pay for advanced insurance you don’t want.
I pay 130€ a year for my health insurance in Belgium it’s not significant at all.
There are a lot of variation across countries it’s a gross reduction to talk about the Us vs. Europe.
Yeah I wish there was an offer like that in my home country. 130€ does not even cover half of the monthly payment for mandatory health insurance there (but it depends a bit on your income).