Don’t know if this goes here or in /AskLemmy, but just wanted to know the best FOSS social networks, why are there so good? What would be the propietary equivalent?
I’m pansexual, nonbinary, vegan, and anarchist, and I think it’s really important for there to be safe spaces online where the Parler type perspective is not welcome; where bigotry and hatespeech is not welcome - I agree in the sense that there has to be a transparent code of conduct so that people know what they’re signing up for, and thankfully a heck of a lot of Fediverse instances offer that.
I certainly think everyone should have a safe space, but that it needs to be a smaller, more intimiate space - such as a friend’s house would be or a private group within a social network. I hate hearing negative talk about women, yet still think incels and misogynists should have a right to their own group. Sometimes all people want is to talk out their frustrations and not act them out. Sometimes once they get that off their chest, they chill out a little bit.
I’ve never been on Parler and fear the tyranny of “the Left” as much as that of “the Right”. Quite frankly, i feel squeezed uncomfortably by both sides and not allowed to be independent-minded. Call me sexist, but women seem the worst about social bullying. I guess they need larger goals in life so that they are more occupied with their own danged business to mind mine.
I think we need to allow polite open discussion and not be so quick to shout someone down. Our react might be more productive if we handled it by rational discussion rather than by emotional outbursts.
I don’t feel at home in a Conservative Atheist group, either - tried that and didn’t like it.
But, I cannot ask others to change for me - and, can only hope they don’t expect me to change for them. I refused to change for my own family and have mostly disowned them. Why some ‘offended’ person thinks they can change me, idk why. I don’t play that shame-game.
Perhaps more middle-of-the-road or Libertarian-minded people simply need to learn tech more and start their own groups so that Left and Right don’t continue to squeeze them out.
I mean traditionally the people who were techies have generally been “middle of the road Libertarian minded people”. Just look at the founding of the EFF.
I grew up very conservative and then became libertarian, and now I’m anarchist/socialist. I think a lot of people have had a similar journey as me in tech. Increasingly more and more tech people are waking up to the ways they’re being shafted by their bosses and they aren’t happy with it.
In the 90s it was easy to believe in a utopian sort of capitalism. The USSR had just fallen, jobs were booming, and even after the dotcom crash, most engineers were well paid even if they weren’t particularly good at their job.
But code boot camps, machine learning, outsourcing, the corporate harvesting of open source, have all put greater pressure on the average techie. This is why there’s so much backlash against Elon Musk, because people are starting to get tired and see through the schtick. Techno utopianism has worn thin. Where’s my mfing flying car?!
And in addition to that, when Trump was elected, a lot of anti-racist libertarians looked around and realized how many of their “libertarian” friends who ranted all the time about “State’s Rights” were really just white supremacist chucklefucks. The Libertarian movement online has split. A lot of people went one way or the other.
I’ve never been on Parler and fear the tyranny of “the Left” as much as that of “the Right”.
My only issue with this is that the Left, at least in America has no power. Who is “the Left” to you? Biden? Biden is not really very Left at all. AOC? She has a platform and no power. Are you afraid of Spotify kicking Rogan off their platform? Spotify the capitalist tech monopolist that rips off artists?
Leftists in America are basically powerless fringe weirdos.
Whereas right wingers are literally most of our government. And they have drones and they kill people with those drones.
I like the EFF - what I know, at least.
I am against the fascism of BigTech and that is what I hear you describing - though I am no political expert or tech graduate.
I’ve seen how they try to replace developers with immigrants from India and China - who they also take advantage of.
I think most people think of Big Biz when they think of capitalism, but in my mnd, it is a world mostly full of small businesses and mostly devoid of businesses with over 100 employees. Government is supposed to be objective about business, but is sadly very involved (in backroom deals, I’d bet). Again, I don’t know the more precice lingo. I only know that what I see scares me - that all of those chances our grandparents had to get ahead are going away.
I am not sure about Elon Musk yet. It is terrifying to think that he could corner the internet market with satellite, though. I worry about AWS/Amazon cornering the server market and thus having the power to censor us. Satellite internet seems far more powerful than that.
I’ve never met a white supremacist Libertarian online and have met almost no Libertarians at all in person. I was put off by a couple misogynists, but think those were broken-hearted lonely men who just needed to rant a while - even if it did hurt the women in the group.
Libertarians are very, very independent types and will always be too split to go too far. I feel the same about the FOSS community. They simply don’t work too well with others and that makes it hard to get ahead sometimes. They don’t want to dominate (usually), but don’t always want to cooperate, negotiate, or compromise.
I don’t know who AOC is.
I left Spotify because of censorship already, but still hate how they are treating Joe Rogan - though I never watch his show.
I think the lines are quite blurred about who or which co. is capitalist or just opportunist or leftist. I prefer tthe term fascist for co. such as Amazon, Facebook, and Google. If you get help or forgiveness from the gov’t, that is fascism and I hate it. It is tyranny and deprives others of a fair chance to compete.
I realize there many shades of grey and I thought Trump was a moderate Republican (he used to be a Democrat) and that many Democrats can be as greedy as any Republican.
The Left is cancel-culture and gets people fired or not promoted- people who aren’t always celebs. They censor people. Its a modern-day witch burning or Maoist weeding out of anyone would disagrees.
I think of Biden as Left, but what degree is he? idk. He’s nothing but a figurehead like most presidents are.
I think the Left would be largely without power if the Right wouldn’t be so domineering…and, vice versa. Its like being kids and watching your parents have a big fight that continues to escalate to the point of insanity - each trying to out-maneveur or out-do the other. The kids just stand by cringing, thinking, “holy shit, I have the DNA of both of those lunatics”. You both hate them and begin to hate yourself for being a reluctant passive party to it.
But, I also think conglomerates and other BIGGG players (central banks, IMF, WEF) are controlling or heavily influencing the left and right. They bait the Left and Right and the fools take the bait. They divide and conquer and are a bit outside of that Left or Right box.
I think that group is the one with drones, and the ones who orchestrate those wars. i fear another war within the next 5 years - maybe including Russia, Ukraine, and the Middle East. I suppose we ‘need’ more oil, so need that land access to where the oil pipelines will go. I say “need”. because most Americans have far too much crap already.
I think most people think of Big Biz when they think of capitalism, but in my mnd, it is a world mostly full of small businesses and mostly devoid of businesses with over 100 employees.
Concentration of ownership in business is at highs we haven’t seen since the Gilded Age. That isn’t even an opinion, it’s a measurable fact.
I don’t think you’re really understanding what people mean when they talk about “capitalism”. Capitalism isn’t simply “big business” or “small business” or even “government versus business”, because Capitalism is enforced and upheld by Government. Here is a short video by an economics professor that might help clarify what leftists mean when they talk about “capitalism”
You might consider him left but Leftists, or at least the kind of people who self identify as Leftists on Lemmy would disagree with you strongly.
But, I also think conglomerates and other BIGGG players (central banks, IMF, WEF) are controlling or heavily influencing the left and right. They bait the Left and Right and the fools take the bait. They divide and conquer and are a bit outside of that Left or Right box.
No, the IMF, central banks, and WEF are capitalists. They are right wing. They are exactly what Leftists oppose. They are not outside of divide between Left and Right. They ARE the basis of opposition. You are literally complaining about Capitalism.
I thnk definitions/words matter a lot.
The original meaning of capitalism was to own capital - any one. Owning a home or a small business is owning capital. I suppose owning stocks, bonds, or crypto may also fall under that category.
The modern definition of the word seems to be BigBiz and/or conglomerate. I despise those and do not consider those capitalist. If we cannot agree on defintions, that confuses things. I am very well aware that money and power is being consolidated. I used to pass around those charts showing that and other charts showing what conglomerates own now (there are about 5 who own most brands, services, media, banks, etc). I call that fascism because anti-monopoly laws, anti-trust laws have not been enforced by government and BigBiz is now in a loose parnerships of sorts with government. They may not be the same, but they are danged-near twins or kissing-cousins. When BigBiz works closely with government that can be called an oligarchy or fascism. I’d guess I am leaving out various other terminology such as mixed economy.
I just watched the video and was relieved that he agreed that not agreeing on definitions confuses conversation. But, he made it seem too clear cut - as though only social or capitalism existed. Nothng is that neat or all-or-nothing.
the IMF, central banks, and WEF bait the common citizen with concepts about Utopia and equality (which are good to an extent), but are about their own gain and nothing more. They are FASCISTs who pander to the patriotism of the Right and the egalitarianism of the Left. Both are ways to manipulate people and tell them they are worth either the same as others or even more than others.
I oost my home, but when I owned it, I was a capitalist. If I owned my own tiny bakery, that, too, would make me a captialist because I thought I had the right to own capital.
That cabal of thugs called central bankers are above the right or left wing concept and use it to their benefit. Yes, they want money, but they also want 95% of the population to be EQUAL (equal outcomes, not equal opportunity…equally poor and powerless. They bait us - show us what we want, tell us we are good little boys and girls for wanting that and that they’ll help us get it. But, they trick us and lie, cheat, and steal. Wanting to be rich and powerful for yourself while not allowing others to own capital or speak freely is not capitalism. It is assholery.
Not saying wikipedia is always right, but this is close enough this time:
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership and control of the means of production and their operation for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, a price system determined by supply and demand, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor.
No where does it say government showing favoritism to FB or Google in exchange for forking over our private data. Nowhere does it say forgiveness of taxes to Amazon or government contracts to this or that company in exchange for major campaign donations and for hiring your brother as vice-CEO.
Perhaps CRONY-captialism is closer to what you mean? Crony-capitalism is unethical.
I’m pansexual, nonbinary, vegan, and anarchist, and I think it’s really important for there to be safe spaces online where the Parler type perspective is not welcome; where bigotry and hatespeech is not welcome - I agree in the sense that there has to be a transparent code of conduct so that people know what they’re signing up for, and thankfully a heck of a lot of Fediverse instances offer that.
I certainly think everyone should have a safe space, but that it needs to be a smaller, more intimiate space - such as a friend’s house would be or a private group within a social network. I hate hearing negative talk about women, yet still think incels and misogynists should have a right to their own group. Sometimes all people want is to talk out their frustrations and not act them out. Sometimes once they get that off their chest, they chill out a little bit. I’ve never been on Parler and fear the tyranny of “the Left” as much as that of “the Right”. Quite frankly, i feel squeezed uncomfortably by both sides and not allowed to be independent-minded. Call me sexist, but women seem the worst about social bullying. I guess they need larger goals in life so that they are more occupied with their own danged business to mind mine. I think we need to allow polite open discussion and not be so quick to shout someone down. Our react might be more productive if we handled it by rational discussion rather than by emotional outbursts. I don’t feel at home in a Conservative Atheist group, either - tried that and didn’t like it. But, I cannot ask others to change for me - and, can only hope they don’t expect me to change for them. I refused to change for my own family and have mostly disowned them. Why some ‘offended’ person thinks they can change me, idk why. I don’t play that shame-game. Perhaps more middle-of-the-road or Libertarian-minded people simply need to learn tech more and start their own groups so that Left and Right don’t continue to squeeze them out.
I mean traditionally the people who were techies have generally been “middle of the road Libertarian minded people”. Just look at the founding of the EFF.
I grew up very conservative and then became libertarian, and now I’m anarchist/socialist. I think a lot of people have had a similar journey as me in tech. Increasingly more and more tech people are waking up to the ways they’re being shafted by their bosses and they aren’t happy with it.
In the 90s it was easy to believe in a utopian sort of capitalism. The USSR had just fallen, jobs were booming, and even after the dotcom crash, most engineers were well paid even if they weren’t particularly good at their job.
But code boot camps, machine learning, outsourcing, the corporate harvesting of open source, have all put greater pressure on the average techie. This is why there’s so much backlash against Elon Musk, because people are starting to get tired and see through the schtick. Techno utopianism has worn thin. Where’s my mfing flying car?!
And in addition to that, when Trump was elected, a lot of anti-racist libertarians looked around and realized how many of their “libertarian” friends who ranted all the time about “State’s Rights” were really just white supremacist chucklefucks. The Libertarian movement online has split. A lot of people went one way or the other.
My only issue with this is that the Left, at least in America has no power. Who is “the Left” to you? Biden? Biden is not really very Left at all. AOC? She has a platform and no power. Are you afraid of Spotify kicking Rogan off their platform? Spotify the capitalist tech monopolist that rips off artists?
Leftists in America are basically powerless fringe weirdos.
Whereas right wingers are literally most of our government. And they have drones and they kill people with those drones.
I like the EFF - what I know, at least. I am against the fascism of BigTech and that is what I hear you describing - though I am no political expert or tech graduate. I’ve seen how they try to replace developers with immigrants from India and China - who they also take advantage of. I think most people think of Big Biz when they think of capitalism, but in my mnd, it is a world mostly full of small businesses and mostly devoid of businesses with over 100 employees. Government is supposed to be objective about business, but is sadly very involved (in backroom deals, I’d bet). Again, I don’t know the more precice lingo. I only know that what I see scares me - that all of those chances our grandparents had to get ahead are going away. I am not sure about Elon Musk yet. It is terrifying to think that he could corner the internet market with satellite, though. I worry about AWS/Amazon cornering the server market and thus having the power to censor us. Satellite internet seems far more powerful than that. I’ve never met a white supremacist Libertarian online and have met almost no Libertarians at all in person. I was put off by a couple misogynists, but think those were broken-hearted lonely men who just needed to rant a while - even if it did hurt the women in the group. Libertarians are very, very independent types and will always be too split to go too far. I feel the same about the FOSS community. They simply don’t work too well with others and that makes it hard to get ahead sometimes. They don’t want to dominate (usually), but don’t always want to cooperate, negotiate, or compromise. I don’t know who AOC is.
I left Spotify because of censorship already, but still hate how they are treating Joe Rogan - though I never watch his show.
I think the lines are quite blurred about who or which co. is capitalist or just opportunist or leftist. I prefer tthe term fascist for co. such as Amazon, Facebook, and Google. If you get help or forgiveness from the gov’t, that is fascism and I hate it. It is tyranny and deprives others of a fair chance to compete. I realize there many shades of grey and I thought Trump was a moderate Republican (he used to be a Democrat) and that many Democrats can be as greedy as any Republican. The Left is cancel-culture and gets people fired or not promoted- people who aren’t always celebs. They censor people. Its a modern-day witch burning or Maoist weeding out of anyone would disagrees. I think of Biden as Left, but what degree is he? idk. He’s nothing but a figurehead like most presidents are. I think the Left would be largely without power if the Right wouldn’t be so domineering…and, vice versa. Its like being kids and watching your parents have a big fight that continues to escalate to the point of insanity - each trying to out-maneveur or out-do the other. The kids just stand by cringing, thinking, “holy shit, I have the DNA of both of those lunatics”. You both hate them and begin to hate yourself for being a reluctant passive party to it. But, I also think conglomerates and other BIGGG players (central banks, IMF, WEF) are controlling or heavily influencing the left and right. They bait the Left and Right and the fools take the bait. They divide and conquer and are a bit outside of that Left or Right box.
I think that group is the one with drones, and the ones who orchestrate those wars. i fear another war within the next 5 years - maybe including Russia, Ukraine, and the Middle East. I suppose we ‘need’ more oil, so need that land access to where the oil pipelines will go. I say “need”. because most Americans have far too much crap already.
The only problem with this, is that it is objectively false: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/big-business-is-getting-bigger/
Concentration of ownership in business is at highs we haven’t seen since the Gilded Age. That isn’t even an opinion, it’s a measurable fact.
I don’t think you’re really understanding what people mean when they talk about “capitalism”. Capitalism isn’t simply “big business” or “small business” or even “government versus business”, because Capitalism is enforced and upheld by Government. Here is a short video by an economics professor that might help clarify what leftists mean when they talk about “capitalism”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnY_ZqJ64cI
You might consider him left but Leftists, or at least the kind of people who self identify as Leftists on Lemmy would disagree with you strongly.
No, the IMF, central banks, and WEF are capitalists. They are right wing. They are exactly what Leftists oppose. They are not outside of divide between Left and Right. They ARE the basis of opposition. You are literally complaining about Capitalism.
I thnk definitions/words matter a lot. The original meaning of capitalism was to own capital - any one. Owning a home or a small business is owning capital. I suppose owning stocks, bonds, or crypto may also fall under that category. The modern definition of the word seems to be BigBiz and/or conglomerate. I despise those and do not consider those capitalist. If we cannot agree on defintions, that confuses things. I am very well aware that money and power is being consolidated. I used to pass around those charts showing that and other charts showing what conglomerates own now (there are about 5 who own most brands, services, media, banks, etc). I call that fascism because anti-monopoly laws, anti-trust laws have not been enforced by government and BigBiz is now in a loose parnerships of sorts with government. They may not be the same, but they are danged-near twins or kissing-cousins. When BigBiz works closely with government that can be called an oligarchy or fascism. I’d guess I am leaving out various other terminology such as mixed economy. I just watched the video and was relieved that he agreed that not agreeing on definitions confuses conversation. But, he made it seem too clear cut - as though only social or capitalism existed. Nothng is that neat or all-or-nothing. the IMF, central banks, and WEF bait the common citizen with concepts about Utopia and equality (which are good to an extent), but are about their own gain and nothing more. They are FASCISTs who pander to the patriotism of the Right and the egalitarianism of the Left. Both are ways to manipulate people and tell them they are worth either the same as others or even more than others. I oost my home, but when I owned it, I was a capitalist. If I owned my own tiny bakery, that, too, would make me a captialist because I thought I had the right to own capital. That cabal of thugs called central bankers are above the right or left wing concept and use it to their benefit. Yes, they want money, but they also want 95% of the population to be EQUAL (equal outcomes, not equal opportunity…equally poor and powerless. They bait us - show us what we want, tell us we are good little boys and girls for wanting that and that they’ll help us get it. But, they trick us and lie, cheat, and steal. Wanting to be rich and powerful for yourself while not allowing others to own capital or speak freely is not capitalism. It is assholery. Not saying wikipedia is always right, but this is close enough this time: Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership and control of the means of production and their operation for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, a price system determined by supply and demand, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor.
No where does it say government showing favoritism to FB or Google in exchange for forking over our private data. Nowhere does it say forgiveness of taxes to Amazon or government contracts to this or that company in exchange for major campaign donations and for hiring your brother as vice-CEO. Perhaps CRONY-captialism is closer to what you mean? Crony-capitalism is unethical.