The problem is having this super open and accepting attitude towards sex just invites in all kinds of sex pests. People who legitimately have our politics as well as predators who don’t (and to be clear there can be predators who can share our politics as well but be predators).
The fact is we’re here to get things done not be a dating group or a place where people (often women) have to worry about being hit on and feeling objectified and unsafe and too many – let’s face it, it’s almost always men – join up for and expect “revolutionary pussy” in exchange for being good dedicated boys who do all the right things. I mean FFS you have Obama talking about trying to get in the pants of this Marxist chick he knew by going to something with her in his autobiography. So this is not exactly some imagined issue. It is a big issue that has existed for decades in the broad ‘left’ from student groups to environmental activism to yes Marxist groups and communist parties.
On an organizational level it is correct for parties and other Marxist organizations to take a stance against bringing or allowing horniness in the ranks (no comrade, having an orgy is not going to stick it to the bourgeoisie, no comrade, having underwear cuddle sessions won’t allow us to enlighten ourselves any better, and no comrade it’s not a revolutionary act to fuck). This doesn’t mean enforced chastity or vows or anything of the sort just that being horny around comrades is bad actually and you shouldn’t do it.
There is a little meme there as a Maoist organization once published a position paper basically arguing all sex is rape because under capitalism there cannot be freedom from various coercions which means an inability to truly consent. While I do think they had a point there (not to the point that we should all refrain from sex under capitalism but the harms capitalism does towards our ability to attain true consent and equality required for real sexual liberation). This paper as I understand it was used to shut down anyone even remotely looking like a sex pest in the ranks of some Maoist orgs.
There’s a huge difference between calming people that think with their gonads and help an anxiety that may manifest with their sexual drive in a open and comprehensive way than treating sex like some sort of complete no-no.
Specially since reactionary societies toward sex are what cause that “sex pest” you talk about.
Yeah, treat a party and org like a workplace. “You come here to work, not to get laid”, for example. But you just said “sex is bad”. And a wall text just to say “sex is bad” again.
Dude, you know that famous case of a woman that was sentenced to death in China in the 80’s just because she had sex with 10partners? Because that happened, and you are talking in ways where you practically condoned her punishment, even if you think death was too much, you still condone punishment for sexual activity in the same way a fucking religion would.
You’re reaching nonsense that make little difference between fucking zealots and a Marxist group.
If I wanted to participate in a puritan culture where sex is badly seen regardless of context, making appear sex predators due to the side effects of this reactionary behavior, then I would have remained a Christian/Jehovah’s Witness.
No I don’t know or care about your propaganda. You kind of tipped your hand there with that anti-communist nonsense. (And no, don’t send me any RFA links about it)
No one but you is talking about puritanism. I started this thread by talking about people having a right to sexual (self) release FFS.
As to the nonsense about Christianity I was brought up an Evangelical Christian and I was expected to save myself for a nice Christian man and to submit to him in all things and not to have sexual desires outside of that idea. I know what sexual repression is and what unhealthy religious effects on sex and women are from a very intimate perspective that I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
As communists we do not see women as “dirty chewed gum” because they had sex before marriage nor do we call them such. As communists we do not criminalize abortion. As communists we do not object to sex toys or birth control, we pay for the latter. As communists we do not perpetuate or entertain the disgusting male ownership culture of girls’ and women’s bodies by their fathers, husbands, or the church.
Even the most uncharitable interpretation of my words could not reasonably say it was on the level of advocating for the same thing as disgusting Christian purity culture. Seems a little unreasonable as a perspective there because even if I were advocating for a communism with sexual repression on the level you think I am (I’m not, you seem awful offended on the behalf of sex pests) it wouldn’t be anywhere near the awfulness of purity culture just purely on the basis that communism results in liberation of women from patriarchal structures while Christian purity culture is sexual slavery by another name.
I can see where your outrage comes from to be honest. When I first escaped religion I was super liberal in terms of sexuality. I was pro-porn, I was just against anything and everything that looked like a constraint on sexuality because it looked more like that religious prison I’d just escaped. The passionate heat of the hate I felt as an anti-theist for religion has cooled though. I am still an atheist, still a religious critic. I am still of the opinion religion will be overcome. However I have perspective. Liberalism itself is a rot and a disease and we must free ourselves of it. This doesn’t mean state control over all sexual activities. I refer you to the GDR (East Germany) and their take on things as what we might look towards for guidance.
My comrade in Lenin! You just said “sex is bad”! How the fuck can someone interpret this except “sex is bad” when I’m referring you textually?
It’s was not anticommunist propaganda when the Chinese themselves refer to that time as a bad decade where they are very critical of what happened, and even I knew about this from a Chinese communist that was against death penalty, for fuck’s sake. And look, I know this loos like some sort of slippery slope, but that continuous propagation of calling everyone that defends that sex is not inherently bad, it’s just sex, and compare it to being “pro porn” and a “sex pest” is fucking borderline puritanical nonsense! I remind you, you said “sex is bad” which almost looked like you said it was sinful and still won’t be able to see how simmilar it is to puritanism?
Look. The sex is bad in my initial post was said jokingly. It was a meme if you will. A call-back to the volcel police meme, the Maoist position paper on consent under capitalism, AKA “All Sex is Rape” paper. I didn’t mean it literally. But I am for shutting down people getting horny online in left-spaces.
The problem is having this super open and accepting attitude towards sex just invites in all kinds of sex pests. People who legitimately have our politics as well as predators who don’t (and to be clear there can be predators who can share our politics as well but be predators).
The fact is we’re here to get things done not be a dating group or a place where people (often women) have to worry about being hit on and feeling objectified and unsafe and too many – let’s face it, it’s almost always men – join up for and expect “revolutionary pussy” in exchange for being good dedicated boys who do all the right things. I mean FFS you have Obama talking about trying to get in the pants of this Marxist chick he knew by going to something with her in his autobiography. So this is not exactly some imagined issue. It is a big issue that has existed for decades in the broad ‘left’ from student groups to environmental activism to yes Marxist groups and communist parties.
On an organizational level it is correct for parties and other Marxist organizations to take a stance against bringing or allowing horniness in the ranks (no comrade, having an orgy is not going to stick it to the bourgeoisie, no comrade, having underwear cuddle sessions won’t allow us to enlighten ourselves any better, and no comrade it’s not a revolutionary act to fuck). This doesn’t mean enforced chastity or vows or anything of the sort just that being horny around comrades is bad actually and you shouldn’t do it.
There is a little meme there as a Maoist organization once published a position paper basically arguing all sex is rape because under capitalism there cannot be freedom from various coercions which means an inability to truly consent. While I do think they had a point there (not to the point that we should all refrain from sex under capitalism but the harms capitalism does towards our ability to attain true consent and equality required for real sexual liberation). This paper as I understand it was used to shut down anyone even remotely looking like a sex pest in the ranks of some Maoist orgs.
There’s a huge difference between calming people that think with their gonads and help an anxiety that may manifest with their sexual drive in a open and comprehensive way than treating sex like some sort of complete no-no. Specially since reactionary societies toward sex are what cause that “sex pest” you talk about.
Yeah, treat a party and org like a workplace. “You come here to work, not to get laid”, for example. But you just said “sex is bad”. And a wall text just to say “sex is bad” again.
Dude, you know that famous case of a woman that was sentenced to death in China in the 80’s just because she had sex with 10partners? Because that happened, and you are talking in ways where you practically condoned her punishment, even if you think death was too much, you still condone punishment for sexual activity in the same way a fucking religion would.
You’re reaching nonsense that make little difference between fucking zealots and a Marxist group.
If I wanted to participate in a puritan culture where sex is badly seen regardless of context, making appear sex predators due to the side effects of this reactionary behavior, then I would have remained a Christian/Jehovah’s Witness.
No I don’t know or care about your propaganda. You kind of tipped your hand there with that anti-communist nonsense. (And no, don’t send me any RFA links about it)
No one but you is talking about puritanism. I started this thread by talking about people having a right to sexual (self) release FFS.
As to the nonsense about Christianity I was brought up an Evangelical Christian and I was expected to save myself for a nice Christian man and to submit to him in all things and not to have sexual desires outside of that idea. I know what sexual repression is and what unhealthy religious effects on sex and women are from a very intimate perspective that I wouldn’t wish on anyone.
As communists we do not see women as “dirty chewed gum” because they had sex before marriage nor do we call them such. As communists we do not criminalize abortion. As communists we do not object to sex toys or birth control, we pay for the latter. As communists we do not perpetuate or entertain the disgusting male ownership culture of girls’ and women’s bodies by their fathers, husbands, or the church.
Even the most uncharitable interpretation of my words could not reasonably say it was on the level of advocating for the same thing as disgusting Christian purity culture. Seems a little unreasonable as a perspective there because even if I were advocating for a communism with sexual repression on the level you think I am (I’m not, you seem awful offended on the behalf of sex pests) it wouldn’t be anywhere near the awfulness of purity culture just purely on the basis that communism results in liberation of women from patriarchal structures while Christian purity culture is sexual slavery by another name.
I can see where your outrage comes from to be honest. When I first escaped religion I was super liberal in terms of sexuality. I was pro-porn, I was just against anything and everything that looked like a constraint on sexuality because it looked more like that religious prison I’d just escaped. The passionate heat of the hate I felt as an anti-theist for religion has cooled though. I am still an atheist, still a religious critic. I am still of the opinion religion will be overcome. However I have perspective. Liberalism itself is a rot and a disease and we must free ourselves of it. This doesn’t mean state control over all sexual activities. I refer you to the GDR (East Germany) and their take on things as what we might look towards for guidance.
My comrade in Lenin! You just said “sex is bad”! How the fuck can someone interpret this except “sex is bad” when I’m referring you textually?
It’s was not anticommunist propaganda when the Chinese themselves refer to that time as a bad decade where they are very critical of what happened, and even I knew about this from a Chinese communist that was against death penalty, for fuck’s sake. And look, I know this loos like some sort of slippery slope, but that continuous propagation of calling everyone that defends that sex is not inherently bad, it’s just sex, and compare it to being “pro porn” and a “sex pest” is fucking borderline puritanical nonsense! I remind you, you said “sex is bad” which almost looked like you said it was sinful and still won’t be able to see how simmilar it is to puritanism?
Look. The sex is bad in my initial post was said jokingly. It was a meme if you will. A call-back to the volcel police meme, the Maoist position paper on consent under capitalism, AKA “All Sex is Rape” paper. I didn’t mean it literally. But I am for shutting down people getting horny online in left-spaces.