(Bloomberg) -- Russia will cut off the gas to Poland and Bulgaria on Wednesday in a major escalation in the standoff between Moscow and Europe over energy supplies and the war in Ukraine.Most Read from BloombergRussia to Cut Gas to Poland and Bulgaria, Making Energy a WeaponRussia Warns of Nuclear War Risk as Ukraine Talks Go OnTesla Stock Drop Wipes Out $126 Billion in One DayUkraine Latest: Russia Says It Cut Gas Flows to Poland, BulgariaElon Musk Lands Deal to Take Twitter Private for $44 Bil
Bruh, i live in Kaliningrad. Poland literaly want us starving by stoping train with food and medical supplies from Russia. Those assholes deserved this and much more.
They are part of EU. They could dissent from subservience to USA like Hungary, which would be in their own interest but they didn’t. Also it’s not a fucking embargo or sanction, Gazprom just want another currency and is even offering to setup the deal to make it easier. I mean it isn’t really strange in any commodity exchange? Compare this with the criminal sanctions USA are impposing on the countries.
The reason is simple, they played the stupid game of imperialism against themselves and now won stupid prize.
Nobody is saying it’s comparable to US sanctions, but it’s a dick move to cut gas first to the most pro-russian country in EU for not paying in roubles, when no one else does as well, besides Hungary. Hungary has a strongman leader like Orban who has the power and support to make dissenting decisions, we have a loose coalition of 4 parties that hate each other, and at least two of which are funded by the US. We are getting punished because we are the least profitable, as a warning for the big countries.
The people are indeed very pro-Russia in general, but our government is filled with US-financed puppets that get their support from the capital urbanites (which are pretty much the only people that actually vote and still trust the system). I expect our state to lose legitimacy even further with the ongoing situation, because it’s just so apparent that they could have evaded this shitshow if they complied with the demands instead of acting as a tumour of Western imperialism.
the most pro-russian country in EU for not paying in roubles, when no one else does as well, besides Hungary.
Well, it seems it is more pro-USA than pro-russian then. Seems Hungary is the most prorussian country in EU.
we have a loose coalition of 4 parties that hate each other, and at least two of which are funded by the US
And what it does have to do anything with it? It’s not annexation of half of your country, it’s literally transferring the funds to another account. Some checking and then 10 minutes of accountant work, tops.
We are getting punished because we are the least profitable, as a warning for the big countries.
No, you are punished (with a quick check and 10 minutes of accountant work) because your country, just as mine, have bootlicker government. Or maybe, just maybe, it’s your government putting you in terrible position because their own stools, and their own US bribes matters to them more than you people. Russia have absolutely nothing to do with it. Think for a second, WHO IS TO BLAME FOR IT.
This is such bs from Russia, Bulgaria hasn’t sent any weapons to Ukraine and now we are the first to get our gas stopped. Why don’t they stop Germoney’s gas, who are literally sending tanks and also not paying in roubles?
Germany probably is making too much money for the Russian oil barons. They still have capitalist interests in the country factoring in on decisions. Keep in mind though that this is just my low skimming analysis.
Bulgaria refused to pay, should they send it for free? Actually Germany said it would pay from the beginning. Austria, Hungary and Slovakia also said so i think. Im sorry for bulgarians because they dont deserve this but this is the bulgarian governments fault, not Russias.
Source on refusing to pay? The only country I’ve read that has officially agreed to pay in roubles is Hungary. I dont think our gov has said anything concretely. You have to understand that we are in a very unstable political situation rn - our current government came after several elections last year, when the CDU sponsored mafia-linked GERB party which ruled for a decade finally fell from power after huge protests out of which several new parties came to the stage. The gov now is a very loose coalition of these parties plus the socialist party and things are very slow, chaotic and unpredictable as all these different parties are pushing their own interests. We are having a hard time dealing with our own things let alone this bullshit.
According to our media we have made the payments in dollars, which Gazprom then returned. No new contract has been made to pay in roubles, and our gov says that they can’t comply with demands outside a contract. Also I can’t find a single source that claims that Germany has agreed to pay in roubles, all the msm news say they have refused it.
You claimed Germany agreed from the start to pay in roubles, yet even your source says they refuse that and will continue paying in Euros, as their contract allows that. Our contract is in dollars, and we have made the payment. Our gov has not refused to pay in roubles if the contract is renegotiated. We can’t just open a bank account and wire money to Russia, hoping to receive gas, that’s why contracts exist, right?
Italy’s development comes after Russia stopping our gas, so it’s not a fair example. Slovakia’s is just a statement, but they also haven’t done anything yet. Again, Hungary is the only one that has officially agreed, but they have Orban’s strongman politics and personal relationship with Putin, we have a very loose coalition of 4 parties that disagree on everything. Russia could have cut us some slack, instead they chose to use as a warning for the big countries because we are inconsequential to their market.
“We cant just open a bank account” actually you can, Hungary and Italy just did it, no need to renegotiate anything. Seriously dude, stop believing what your US puppet government tells you. Russia announced this 1 month ago, your government had 1 MONTH to get its shit together and they even refused to SAY that they would do so, while other countries already had. Russia is the most sanctioned country on earth and is engaged in a war for its own survival. Meanwhile your government is actively attacking Russia, by participating in mass sanctions, which included seizing HALF of the Russian Central Banks ENTIRE assets. Bulgaria has US military bases, which could attack Russia at any time, and since a few years the US has even been talking about placing nuclear missiles in Bulgaria. I dont care if you think its “a breach of contract”, you are engaged in an active war against Russia. Russia would be well in its right to cut off gas to all of Europe. And yet, all they asked was to get paid in rubles, so the ruble can recovery from the brutal sanctions YOUR GOVERNMENT imposed, and also to get the euros that will then be converted into rubles deposited in a russian bank, instead of a european bank as before, so that they cannot be seized by the EU if they place more sanctions.
“We have a very lose coalition” Stop believing the lies your government tells you. In my country Spain they say the same bs, “oh no we have to reach an agreement, these are the difficulties of democracy” bla bla bla. The truth is when the bourgeoisie or the EU wants a reform, such as changing the constitution to allow more privatization and shock therapy, they all immediately agree and the vote passes. This is just an excuse, the reality is they chose to not do anything and this is only their fault. Stop believing their lies.
Well, what the hell were they expecting? Just use the scheme that Germany was offered (pay in euros and let Sberbank Gazprombank convert it to rubles in their name)
OOC how does this mechanically work? If the major junctions are in unfriendly countries, how do you stop gas pressure from going from one pipe to another?
They’re keeping track of withdrawals. See in the map that the pipeline going to Germany goes through Poland? If Poland takes gas without paying for it, Russia will reduce the amount of gas sent down that pipeline by the same amount. Effectively, Poland wouldn’t be stealing gas from Russia, but from Germany.
Also the title should be “Poland and Bulgaria won’t pay the seller in the currency seller want so they won’t be allowed to buy”. I mean, this is not even a “free market, baby” moment our anticommunists love so much, but a basics of trade respected all over the world for thousands of years.
This is serious. Either Poland and Bulgaria retract immediately or a serious economic crisis is here. Poland gets 45% of their gas from Russia, while Bulgaria gets 90%. This is fucked up, they should have paid.
Do they have the rubles needed to pay? Part of the difficulty of de dollarization is having enough of other currencies or bundles of currencies so it may be difficult for these countries to comply to the new stipulations.
They dont actually have to pay in rubles. What they have to do is open a bank account in the russian bank Gazprombank and deposit the payment in Euros there. Gazprombank then sells the Euros on the Moscow Stock Exchange for rubles, which are then sent to Gazprom (the russian state owned gas company). So while they are de facto paying in rubles they dont need to actually have them, euros are fine. Poland did this because the US ordered them to. I think they wanted to test Russias limits, see what they would do if they refused to pay. Now millions will suffer because of this. Truly despicable.
Oh word thanks for explaining. So there is little excuse.
This situation is such a shitshow. Now Germany is sending tanks and anti air armor? There is no telling how these weapons will be used over the next decade. This conflict will spread and before we know it all of the people concern trolling about Russia trying to start a nuclear war will be calling for WMDs to be brought to the battlefield. I hope the anti imperialist bloc is prepared for the coming years.
Poland is gonna be fine, they have reserves and alternative sources. Bulgaria not so much. Which is sad because Bulgarians and Russians actually like each other quite a lot, too bad the Bulgarian government insists on fucking its people.
Its sad indeed. Bulgarians and russians are very close, Bulgaria even tried to join the USSR. I hope bulgarians protest and force their government to retract. They dont deserve this. Fuck NATO.
Polish government is. They always take deals with Russia for granted, then show rabid russophobia and are then very suprised Russia may have their own opinion, and they always cries bullshit like “weaponizing gas”.
A „baniak” (about 11kg of propane-butane in a big metal container) has went up SIGNIFICANTLY since the war.
My father and I bought 2 for the price of 67zł knowing they will spike, and sure enough the next day they cost exactly 100zł from the guy we bought them.
Before Covid a baniak was like 50-60 zł.
Our inflation also hits hard on everything else :')
Damn. Im in Spain and inflation is hitting hard too. Electricity, gas and gasoline mainly but also food. Its also stupid because our gas comes from Algeria, not Russia. But since the EU forces gas price to be equal for all of Europe we have to pay for Von Der Leyens bullshit. And now our moronic president has recognized Western Sahara as moroccan territory to bootlick the US, so Algeria (which supports the Western Saharan government) is angry and they may cut our gas too! Our leaders are criminally incompetent.
Well up until now the prices are steadily going up since more than a year, and if the gas really will stop they will skyrocket highly, since energy policy of polish government is absolute mess (like pressurizing everyone to change all other fuels into gas, in heating, cooking, cars…) and full of corruption.
People are generally alienated and inert (solidarność really did us in, that trauma still lingers, and 33 years of brainwashing did not helped either), but maybe this will move something, though most likely we will just see yet another swing towards the same socialdemocracy that betrayed working class two times already in similar situations in 1993-97 and 2001-4.
Yes, today morning. PGNiG (polish gas company) promise it won’t have any influence on amount of gas delivered in Poland since they reserves are high and new sources are being opened, but they said nothing about the prices and i doubt their bragging about sources is entirely real too since they said Europe will be short (which imply Poland will have to compete with old EU and it always ended up bad for Poland in EU).
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Today RT reports a Gazprom official says “This week Poland refused to pay for the Russian gas with the new terms, in rubles. It was grandly announced that they no longer needed Russian gas and would not buy it any more. But in fact Poland keeps buying Russian gas after the direct supply was halted. It now buys the gas from Germany, and it comes back to Poland with the reverse flow via the Yamal-Europe pipeline”.
…note that Reuters reported back in February that “The critical Yamal pipeline has dropped to a fraction of its normal flow from Russia. Since Dec. 21, the pipeline has been flowing in reverse, from west to east, sending German gas reserves to Poland. Russia oil giant Gazprom had declined to order any transit capacity across the route for February, while it has kept Nord Stream 1 flowing at near maximum capacity rates.”
MaKinG EnEgY a WeaPon
Bruh, i live in Kaliningrad. Poland literaly want us starving by stoping train with food and medical supplies from Russia. Those assholes deserved this and much more.
Some billionaires want this. Industry collapsing and the subsequent crises will allow several people to buy huge amounts of industry for cheap.
Several parts of Bulgaria’s energy industry are state-owned. I bet they won’t be after the coming crisis, particularly Bulgargaz.
Seems like Europe is about to experience some 1990s post Soviet block style looting of their economies by foreign capitalists.
As a Bulgarian, I don’t think there’s much left to loot.
Stay safe, I hope your home gets through this
oh god, that is actually terrifying. This will definitely bolster fascism by a huge amount in these countries
I get why they’re cutting poland off but why Bulgaria out of all countries? They haven’t sent arms to ukraine while the g*rms sent fucking tanks
They are part of EU. They could dissent from subservience to USA like Hungary, which would be in their own interest but they didn’t. Also it’s not a fucking embargo or sanction, Gazprom just want another currency and is even offering to setup the deal to make it easier. I mean it isn’t really strange in any commodity exchange? Compare this with the criminal sanctions USA are impposing on the countries.
The reason is simple, they played the stupid game of imperialism against themselves and now won stupid prize.
Nobody is saying it’s comparable to US sanctions, but it’s a dick move to cut gas first to the most pro-russian country in EU for not paying in roubles, when no one else does as well, besides Hungary. Hungary has a strongman leader like Orban who has the power and support to make dissenting decisions, we have a loose coalition of 4 parties that hate each other, and at least two of which are funded by the US. We are getting punished because we are the least profitable, as a warning for the big countries.
The people are indeed very pro-Russia in general, but our government is filled with US-financed puppets that get their support from the capital urbanites (which are pretty much the only people that actually vote and still trust the system). I expect our state to lose legitimacy even further with the ongoing situation, because it’s just so apparent that they could have evaded this shitshow if they complied with the demands instead of acting as a tumour of Western imperialism.
Well, it seems it is more pro-USA than pro-russian then. Seems Hungary is the most prorussian country in EU.
And what it does have to do anything with it? It’s not annexation of half of your country, it’s literally transferring the funds to another account. Some checking and then 10 minutes of accountant work, tops.
No, you are punished (with a quick check and 10 minutes of accountant work) because your country, just as mine, have bootlicker government. Or maybe, just maybe, it’s your government putting you in terrible position because their own stools, and their own US bribes matters to them more than you people. Russia have absolutely nothing to do with it. Think for a second, WHO IS TO BLAME FOR IT.
This is such bs from Russia, Bulgaria hasn’t sent any weapons to Ukraine and now we are the first to get our gas stopped. Why don’t they stop Germoney’s gas, who are literally sending tanks and also not paying in roubles?
Germany probably is making too much money for the Russian oil barons. They still have capitalist interests in the country factoring in on decisions. Keep in mind though that this is just my low skimming analysis.
Bulgaria refused to pay, should they send it for free? Actually Germany said it would pay from the beginning. Austria, Hungary and Slovakia also said so i think. Im sorry for bulgarians because they dont deserve this but this is the bulgarian governments fault, not Russias.
Source on refusing to pay? The only country I’ve read that has officially agreed to pay in roubles is Hungary. I dont think our gov has said anything concretely. You have to understand that we are in a very unstable political situation rn - our current government came after several elections last year, when the CDU sponsored mafia-linked GERB party which ruled for a decade finally fell from power after huge protests out of which several new parties came to the stage. The gov now is a very loose coalition of these parties plus the socialist party and things are very slow, chaotic and unpredictable as all these different parties are pushing their own interests. We are having a hard time dealing with our own things let alone this bullshit.
Italy: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-27/eni-prepares-to-open-ruble-accounts-for-gas-as-eu-warns-firms
Germany: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/31/germany-braces-for-an-end-to-reliance-on-russian-gas
Hungary: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungary-working-solution-pay-russian-gas-may-foreign-minister-2022-04-06/
Slovakia: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/slovak-minister-says-paying-roubles-could-be-an-option-country-needs-gas-2022-04-03/
This source claims that Bulgaria satisfied the current contract, but I do not know if the contract was officially redrawn and accepted by both parties to include payments in roubles.
According to our media we have made the payments in dollars, which Gazprom then returned. No new contract has been made to pay in roubles, and our gov says that they can’t comply with demands outside a contract. Also I can’t find a single source that claims that Germany has agreed to pay in roubles, all the msm news say they have refused it.
All that Bulgaria had to do was open an account in Gazprombank and pay there in euros, which are then sold by the bank for rubles which are then paid to Gazprom. Bulgaria doesnt need rubles, only euros and an account at Gazprombank. Many countries including Italy ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-27/eni-prepares-to-open-ruble-accounts-for-gas-as-eu-warns-firms ), Germany ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/31/germany-braces-for-an-end-to-reliance-on-russian-gas ), Hungary ( https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/hungary-working-solution-pay-russian-gas-may-foreign-minister-2022-04-06/ ) and Slovakia ( https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/slovak-minister-says-paying-roubles-could-be-an-option-country-needs-gas-2022-04-03/ ) have done so already. Clearly the US used Poland and Bulgaria to test what Russia would do if the EU didnt pay by forcing their governments to not pay. And now bulgarians and poles will suffer because of this. Absolutely despicable.
You claimed Germany agreed from the start to pay in roubles, yet even your source says they refuse that and will continue paying in Euros, as their contract allows that. Our contract is in dollars, and we have made the payment. Our gov has not refused to pay in roubles if the contract is renegotiated. We can’t just open a bank account and wire money to Russia, hoping to receive gas, that’s why contracts exist, right?
Italy’s development comes after Russia stopping our gas, so it’s not a fair example. Slovakia’s is just a statement, but they also haven’t done anything yet. Again, Hungary is the only one that has officially agreed, but they have Orban’s strongman politics and personal relationship with Putin, we have a very loose coalition of 4 parties that disagree on everything. Russia could have cut us some slack, instead they chose to use as a warning for the big countries because we are inconsequential to their market.
“We cant just open a bank account” actually you can, Hungary and Italy just did it, no need to renegotiate anything. Seriously dude, stop believing what your US puppet government tells you. Russia announced this 1 month ago, your government had 1 MONTH to get its shit together and they even refused to SAY that they would do so, while other countries already had. Russia is the most sanctioned country on earth and is engaged in a war for its own survival. Meanwhile your government is actively attacking Russia, by participating in mass sanctions, which included seizing HALF of the Russian Central Banks ENTIRE assets. Bulgaria has US military bases, which could attack Russia at any time, and since a few years the US has even been talking about placing nuclear missiles in Bulgaria. I dont care if you think its “a breach of contract”, you are engaged in an active war against Russia. Russia would be well in its right to cut off gas to all of Europe. And yet, all they asked was to get paid in rubles, so the ruble can recovery from the brutal sanctions YOUR GOVERNMENT imposed, and also to get the euros that will then be converted into rubles deposited in a russian bank, instead of a european bank as before, so that they cannot be seized by the EU if they place more sanctions.
“We have a very lose coalition” Stop believing the lies your government tells you. In my country Spain they say the same bs, “oh no we have to reach an agreement, these are the difficulties of democracy” bla bla bla. The truth is when the bourgeoisie or the EU wants a reform, such as changing the constitution to allow more privatization and shock therapy, they all immediately agree and the vote passes. This is just an excuse, the reality is they chose to not do anything and this is only their fault. Stop believing their lies.
I think this guy won the argument, although comrade Hussien provided many more sources, so IDK
So why do you think Russia is targeting bulgaria?
I mean they have it, you want it. Sucks for you guys, it’s a market. probably would not have been a problem in the USSR.
Well, what the hell were they expecting? Just use the scheme that Germany was offered (pay in euros and let
SberbankGazprombank convert it to rubles in their name)OOC how does this mechanically work? If the major junctions are in unfriendly countries, how do you stop gas pressure from going from one pipe to another?
They’re keeping track of withdrawals. See in the map that the pipeline going to Germany goes through Poland? If Poland takes gas without paying for it, Russia will reduce the amount of gas sent down that pipeline by the same amount. Effectively, Poland wouldn’t be stealing gas from Russia, but from Germany.
lol
Well, fuck.
Also the title should be “Poland and Bulgaria won’t pay the seller in the currency seller want so they won’t be allowed to buy”. I mean, this is not even a “free market, baby” moment our anticommunists love so much, but a basics of trade respected all over the world for thousands of years.
Did other countries buying from Russia pay in roubels?
I think some buyers in Europe already pay in Rubles.
Gazprom said some buyers from Europe already do. And they still pay in Euros actually, just with the exchange accounts in the middle.
This is serious. Either Poland and Bulgaria retract immediately or a serious economic crisis is here. Poland gets 45% of their gas from Russia, while Bulgaria gets 90%. This is fucked up, they should have paid.
Do they have the rubles needed to pay? Part of the difficulty of de dollarization is having enough of other currencies or bundles of currencies so it may be difficult for these countries to comply to the new stipulations.
They dont actually have to pay in rubles. What they have to do is open a bank account in the russian bank Gazprombank and deposit the payment in Euros there. Gazprombank then sells the Euros on the Moscow Stock Exchange for rubles, which are then sent to Gazprom (the russian state owned gas company). So while they are de facto paying in rubles they dont need to actually have them, euros are fine. Poland did this because the US ordered them to. I think they wanted to test Russias limits, see what they would do if they refused to pay. Now millions will suffer because of this. Truly despicable.
Oh word thanks for explaining. So there is little excuse.
This situation is such a shitshow. Now Germany is sending tanks and anti air armor? There is no telling how these weapons will be used over the next decade. This conflict will spread and before we know it all of the people concern trolling about Russia trying to start a nuclear war will be calling for WMDs to be brought to the battlefield. I hope the anti imperialist bloc is prepared for the coming years.
Poland is gonna be fine, they have reserves and alternative sources. Bulgaria not so much. Which is sad because Bulgarians and Russians actually like each other quite a lot, too bad the Bulgarian government insists on fucking its people.
Its sad indeed. Bulgarians and russians are very close, Bulgaria even tried to join the USSR. I hope bulgarians protest and force their government to retract. They dont deserve this. Fuck NATO.
based Bulgarian SSR
I wish lol unfortunately it didnt happen. And they tried it twice!
Maybe they should pay for it then
No one is surprised by this
Polish government is. They always take deals with Russia for granted, then show rabid russophobia and are then very suprised Russia may have their own opinion, and they always cries bullshit like “weaponizing gas”.
How is the situation now in Poland? Are gas prices skyrocketing? Are people scared? Are there protests or something?
A „baniak” (about 11kg of propane-butane in a big metal container) has went up SIGNIFICANTLY since the war.
My father and I bought 2 for the price of 67zł knowing they will spike, and sure enough the next day they cost exactly 100zł from the guy we bought them. Before Covid a baniak was like 50-60 zł.
Our inflation also hits hard on everything else :')
Damn. Im in Spain and inflation is hitting hard too. Electricity, gas and gasoline mainly but also food. Its also stupid because our gas comes from Algeria, not Russia. But since the EU forces gas price to be equal for all of Europe we have to pay for Von Der Leyens bullshit. And now our moronic president has recognized Western Sahara as moroccan territory to bootlick the US, so Algeria (which supports the Western Saharan government) is angry and they may cut our gas too! Our leaders are criminally incompetent.
Well up until now the prices are steadily going up since more than a year, and if the gas really will stop they will skyrocket highly, since energy policy of polish government is absolute mess (like pressurizing everyone to change all other fuels into gas, in heating, cooking, cars…) and full of corruption. People are generally alienated and inert (solidarność really did us in, that trauma still lingers, and 33 years of brainwashing did not helped either), but maybe this will move something, though most likely we will just see yet another swing towards the same socialdemocracy that betrayed working class two times already in similar situations in 1993-97 and 2001-4.
Hasnt the gas stopped already? Gazprom said it did.
Yes, today morning. PGNiG (polish gas company) promise it won’t have any influence on amount of gas delivered in Poland since they reserves are high and new sources are being opened, but they said nothing about the prices and i doubt their bragging about sources is entirely real too since they said Europe will be short (which imply Poland will have to compete with old EU and it always ended up bad for Poland in EU).
I understand. So everything is fine for now right?
No sudden jumps yet, we will see.